Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: Welcome to Executive Success. I'm Lesley Everett and today we explore the choices, the habits, the leadership moves that shape extraordinary executives.
You're watching now Media Television.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Welcome to Executive Success Success, the show where we explore what it truly takes to lead at the highest levels, beyond titles, beyond strategy and beyond the resume. I'm your host, Lesley Everett and today we're diving into the formative experiences that shape exceptional leaders.
Joining me is Penny Philpott, a globally recognized IT executive with more than two decades of leadership experience across some of the world's most influential technology brands.
From Oracle and Microsoft to Cisco, Palo Alto Networks and now Red Hat, Penny has built and led multi billion dollar partner ecosystems while championing inclusive, customer obsessed leadership.
What makes Penny's story especially compelling is that her leadership journey didn't actually begin in a traditional corporate setting.
Her early experiences followed far from boardrooms and executive titles, laid the foundation for how she motivates people, builds trust and leads through complexity. Today in this first segment, we're exploring how unconventional beginnings can quietly shape the leaders we become later in life, often long before we actually realize it.
Penny, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on Executive Success to explore some of this today.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: Thanks, Leslie. Lesley, lovely to see you again. Real pleasure to be here.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Fantastic. You've had an unconventional start to leadership from teaching, kayaking, I believe, entering the tech world to entering the tech world. What did those early experiences teach you about responsibility, empathy and motivating people?
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Yeah. So Leslie, when I was a teenager, I did something that was called the Duke of Edinburgh Award in the uk which is basically three different levels of activities where you do various different things to get your, your stars. It's like a silver, bronze, silver and gold. And if you get gold, you go to the palace and Buckingham palace to get your reward. And I did this and it was amazing. It was absolutely incredible journey. But one of the things I decided to pick up was to learn how to kayak.
You know, sort of literally with a closed apron, et cetera, learn to do that as, as my journey and then to get my gold you had to do something extra. And so I took my instructor course and then spent a good summer basically being a kayak instructor on the Thames in Wales and other places. But what it taught me was I was just somebody who was, you know, in school, going to college way didn't have much responsibility feelings. But when you are the person in charge of, of a number of people who sometimes, you know, they're struggling to swim. I, you know, I have taught paraplegics as well, who are very scared. And you, you just basically suddenly you shape up isn't like suddenly becoming sober when there's an area of responsibility.
And, and what that really does is you kind of go into the person, the other person to see they're scared, they're concerned, they don't know what they're doing, they need to feel relaxed, they need to feel confident. And you want them to have fun because you want to see them again. And so it's really about putting yourself into their shoes and actually making them feel like you know what you're talking about, you're in charge. It's going to be safe on your, on your, in your watch. And so that was something I learned very early on and I did well at that. And to be fair, that type of activity of getting trust, making people feel that you're, you know, with you, they're in safe hands and feeling respect is the groundwork for any leader, you know, no matter how old they are. And it's certainly been the groundwork for me. So unconventional beginnings, but had a long lasting effect every day.
[00:04:23] Speaker A: It's an incredible one because there are so many things wrapped in that that you had to learn quickly and you didn't realize at the time how powerful and how useful and valuable those were going to be in leadership today. Today, more so than ever. I think these, these stories that leaders have going back to early days that we forget about, we don't even realize how influential they are on us right now. I think these stories are so important to uncover and analyze what it is that makes us tick. What did we do in a stressful situation that we're now using without actually knowing we're using it? I know that you've, you've often said to me when we've spoken in the past that treating people how you want to be treated is one of your principles, not just in leadership. How has it shaped the way you lead today, that principle?
[00:05:14] Speaker C: I think there's another point I also discussed with you a while ago where, you know, my leadership style has been shaped by great leaders and not so great leaders. In fact, some, some bordering on lunatic, and I'll keep the names safe. But it does, it does make you understand and you sort of, you can take some things about.
What is it that made me feel so undermined, not very valued, wanting to run away?
What was all those things and what was the things that made me feel inclusive, respected, engaged, wanting to go the extra mile and really being part of the team of feeling, you know, that kind of scenario. So. So that's why, to me, how you make people feel is probably the most important thing you can do. Not only from how do you approach a subject, because you're looking at it from their perspective, how they're going to feel about this, but also how you lead conversations, how you leave meetings. Do you leave people feeling that was positive with a smile on their face, maybe with a bit of humor or whatever, but it's about that if people. It's about feelings and how people feel, which is the most important thing to try and approach.
So for me, when it comes to that whole leadership style, and I have seen such diversities in styles, you pick and choose. In fact, you learn more from the guys that aren't so good at it.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. It's always looking out for these pieces in your life that actually are so meaningful to learn from. And what a great philosophy to treat people as you want to be treated. I think we could all do a bit more of that.
Your first professional leadership role involved leading a virtual team, I believe, to build Oracle's distribution strategy, something that had never been done before.
So how did you feel? What was it like stepping into that role with so much uncertainty at that time?
[00:07:20] Speaker C: Well, I was uncertain about it, but the people that I was asked to work with actually were on board with the notion.
Some people were, some people weren't. But basically when you sit there and work out in very simple terms, what's the top few things of why something's a good idea?
And if you talk to people like Thomas Kurian from Google, it's the power of three. He always uses, you know, literally saying, what is it? Why is it going to be a value? What's in it for the business? What's in it for them? You can get people to start exploring that idea.
But the key thing also is for Len to basically have the opportunity to question, to push back, to maybe get some other ideas and to maybe embellish on it. The way to get people on board is to feel that they are part of the journey and that they are involved in the build up and development of something, as opposed to, this is what we've decided and this is what you're going to do. If you don't like it, there's no bars at the windows. It's incredibly important that people feel valued, especially as I was a UK person in Oracle, but I had multinational experience before this particular role.
I needed to have the respect of the people and they didn't know I knew about local laws. In and various bits and pieces in various countries across Europe, Middle east and Africa. And I didn't want to be the person that goes, oh, I know it all either. So you want to sit there and ask, well, how would you think it should be done? What do you think the risks are? How do you feel we should. What would you do to mitigate those risks? It's really getting people into the program, making them on board and allowing them to feel that it's part of it. So when you're rolling out something, it's a team activity rollout rather than one person's ideas, and then it's sort of marching orders.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I get that. So, so important as it's creating that environment and that culture where people feel safe to ask the questions, to be curious, to challenge, to even say, I don't actually believe this might be the best way forward. What about this?
That takes huge skill in leadership to create that environment of people that ask the right questions or ask the questions and are curious and getting their buy in. What's in it for them? What do they really want to achieve? What's important to them? And so many leaders that I come across miss that. It's vital when you look back on those early challenges for that role, to prepare you for the. How does it prepare for the scale and complexity of global leadership today in other areas?
[00:10:03] Speaker C: Yes. Well, I've had, I've had the privilege of managing people in all continents, in most of the main countries, and everyone has a different culture, they have a different background, and it has, you have to basically be very mindful of that, respectful of that. But at the same time, people are people and it's important to sort of speak to the person, even if they're from a different culture or whatever, but have that understanding about how they're perceiving the situation as well.
And in some cultures, you know, women aren't necessarily the leaders and I've had to sort of be the leader in, in those scenarios. And the only way to do that is by basically putting that whole thing to one side, getting down and having the conversations and showing, showing it, showing your war wounds and about the fact that you've, you know, been there, seen it, and you know and understand, but still want to learn more and not coming over as push either. I think another thing that's helped me tremendously from trying to get people into a kayak and paddling and straight line, from closing, you know, multimillion pound deals is that is humor. So I have, you know, we, we talk about branding, don't we, Leslie? And we talk about. You told me this. It was, it's what people say about you when you're not in the room.
In some cases you really don't want to know.
But I know that in my case, you know, I'm sort of considered to be high energy, upbeat, have a lot of empathy, but also a lot of humor.
And I just feel that if I can't go through the day seeing the bright side or the funny side of things, it will kill me. Right. And nobody wants to work with me when I don't have a pulse. So that's another thing. And no matter what sort of. And people say humor doesn't cross boundaries.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Actually, it really does. Yeah. I love that. That's an excellent point. And not always easy for everybody to do, but there's bundles of it with you, as I well know, having known you for some time. So coming up, we're going to explore what happen happens when leadership requires persuasion. How to lead through resistance, earn credibility fast and gain buy in across cultures and organizations.
[00:12:23] Speaker B: We'll be right back with more strategies, stories and steps to help you level.
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Up as a leader.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: This is Executive Success on NOW Media Television.
Every executive faces challenges, but not every executive learns to turn them into breakthroughs. Breakthroughs. I'm Lesley Everett and on Executive Success, we bring you insights, strategy stories from leaders who have built remarkable careers.
We'll dig into executive branding, communication, leadership mindset, team dynamics, and how to navigate pivotal moments in your executive journey.
Catch Executive Success weekly on NOW Media Television, your front row seat to leadership mastery.
Lead with clarity, grow with purpose, achieve with integrity.
[00:13:18] Speaker A: And we're back.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: I'm Lesley Everett and you're watching Executive Success on NOW Media Television. Let's continue building your executive edge.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Welcome back to Executive Success.
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So welcome back to Executive Success. I'm Lesley Everett and I'm joined today by Penny Philpott. In this segment, we're focusing on one of the most challenging aspects of executive leadership leading. When people don't automatically agree with you, always a tough one. And one that crops up a lot for Me in my coaching. Whether it's entering a new organization, working across cultures or driving transformation, leaders are constantly required to sell ideas, earn trust and guide people, perhaps through discomfort.
You often say leadership is about selling penny, especially selling ideas people don't initially want. How did you learn to gain buy in early in your career, such an important part of aspiring leadership?
[00:14:54] Speaker C: Well, I think somebody once said a phrase, socializing ideas and I think that's part of it, the framework. So while ideas are becoming developing, it's really good to as quick as you can, work out your stakeholders, work out the team that you need to work with and start to socialise ideas early on.
And always remember that even if somebody, as long as everyone's asked and feel they're part of it, you'll be able to work with them. If you don't ask them or they don't feel like they're involved, they may just put up walls for the sake of putting up walls. Now, when you do speak to all your stakeholders and you've got this idea or your team, not everyone's going to be on board and they won't. But the key thing is, is that they're part of the journey, so it's better to ask them than not.
And they'll come around on board when they realize that it's, you know, the majority of the people will go with flow and it's the peer pressure type of thing or the herd mentality.
So I always feel that having people around my team who also think what we're doing makes a lot of sense and feel connected and see impact and understand impact to their business is all part of this as well. So stakeholder management.
I cannot tell you how important I feel that is.
And I sometimes look through my calendar and see how much time do I spend with my team, how much time do I spend with my partners or customers, how much time to spend with my stakeholders? I'd say about a third of my time. I'm actually with stakeholders because I need them to be on board. I need them to support my team. You know, when you've got a team that's all over Europe, Middle east and Africa and the person, the people that are working with them on a day to day basis, you need them on board as well and to help support pushing your teams in that direction. So there are always going to be somebody who doesn't like an idea and that's absolutely, totally fine. The key thing is for them to have their opportunity to venture or to ask the questions and to challenge and for you to say, well, that's a really good point. How would you go about differently?
But sometimes, you know, decisions are taken by senior leaders way above our pay scale and, you know, we just kind of have to get them on board and people will come around.
It's just a case of timing.
And if they don't want to come around, well, obviously they can vote with their feet. But we obviously don't want them to do that. We want everyone to suddenly see why this makes total sense and to come on board and to really strengthen it.
But you have to realize that people have a choice. You can't force somebody to believe something's going to work. You can't force them to think that it's a good idea. You have to help them through that journey.
[00:17:47] Speaker A: So this one on one communication. Yeah, yeah.
It's interesting, you say about a third of your time is spent with stakeholders, one on one or managing. And I think that's something I'm seeing a lot of leaders not doing because they simply don't believe that there is the time with all the pressure that they've got. And I totally agree with you, there's nothing more important than having that one on one time with stakeholders and getting to understand them and their agenda. As you moved quickly into multicultural leadership roles, what surprised you most about leading across different cultures and HR environments?
[00:18:25] Speaker C: Well, it's interesting because obviously from an HR perspective, some countries are more for the personnel and some are more for the company.
But if I was any, if I was giving advice of where to move to, definitely France, Germany and then the Netherlands, not so great for the companies, but they're very employee centric, which is fantastic. But you have to be able to understand and navigate these things change and more workers councils are coming on board and you have to sort of work with all those on every step of the way. So it does slow things down. But also you get the opportunity to bounce ideas off. And to be fair, workers councils and HR actually want you to be successful. Right. They're putting the blockers in because they want to make sure that things are being thought through properly. Right. And which is absolutely fine.
And you can use them for consulting and they're happy to help, so they can often help you find the answer.
But with regards to the different cultures, I love it, absolutely love it. And I really embrace all these different cultures and teams in my own leadership team today.
I've got people from all types of cultures, all types of environments and it really brings in the diversity of thought and ideas. I'm not worried about female, male. For me, it's where people have come from, what their experience is and, and what they've done in the past and how they approach things. And you just get so much diversity. I absolutely love it. And quite often my team quite stereotypical of where they're from actually, which is quite amusing. But we have lots of good fun about, about the group and we get a lot done by leaning in and.
[00:20:17] Speaker A: Embracing and helping, helping each team member as well. To understand the diversity, I bet is a big part of that, I'm guessing as well, but just to understand the richness and the power that, that diversity brings to achieving whatever the goals are. I mean, it's, I think when you can embrace that, it's hugely valuable.
Penny, when you step into a new organization, as a lot of leaders do, obviously you're stepping in, in a senior role. Patty, you build trust and credibility.
Well, not instantly, I want to say instantly, but not instantly. But what do you need to do to build that as quickly as possible?
[00:20:54] Speaker C: Well, the key thing is that you have to earn respect.
It doesn't come with a job title. And somebody will always sit there and go, now what's this person going to bring that the other person couldn't? Or whatever. There's always a cynical person in the room that's going to go, go on then, show us your tap dance, tell us what you can do.
And I think the key thing is just to be calm and listen.
Use your observation skills, read the room, have those one on one people understand where they're coming from, but also where do they want to go personally? Because if you know, the role, the sort of leadership or, sorry, maybe the leadership roles or the career journey that somebody wants to go on, that will help you enormously to be able to talk to that person and lean on them and.
But I think, you know, there is this expectation that you're going to turn up and basically, you know, do this amazing tap dance and the whole world will be different. It's not because you still have to understand things. You still don't know where the, the bathrooms are, right. So you have to be able to listen and learn. But if, if you come in saying, oh, well, in the last company I did this and it really worked. Not good, not good. It's like, you know, you guys, you have to basically say you do this really, really well. I've also seen other vendors do it like this. We should think about that as well, right? You can't. You, you have to basically make these people feel a success that you're going to embrace and grow their success rather than, I'm here to, I'm here to save the world because you're all not so good that, you know, that whole attitude is just going to make people.
[00:22:30] Speaker A: Completely bold or worse still criticize the previous leader. You know, that's not, that's not a good thing.
[00:22:35] Speaker C: And nobody's going to help you. You can't do this alone. You have to have the help. You have to build a trust people to sit there and tell you what's really happening.
[00:22:43] Speaker A: So the key is getting to know them, making them feel significant and valued and respected and drawing out what I mean. Smart, A smart move to understand what's going on already.
How do you think leaders can balance confidence with humility when they're trying to follow a new direction?
When they've got, when they're asking people to follow a new direction?
[00:23:07] Speaker C: Yeah, that, that's always a toughie because sometimes that new direction is something that is being, you know, is being forced from a, you know, high side. And there's obviously going to be business reasons for it, but it may negatively affect an individual or it might positively affect an individual or maybe halfway house or whatever. But sure, change is not, nobody likes change. Right. No matter how much people say, oh, yeah, I embrace change. Really. It's something I, I, I used to hate change when I was younger and I had to learn to embrace it and, and see the positives for it. But when there is a sort of a challenge with the change, you just have to be as, have as much empathy as possible to be respectful, to understand, allow people to ask the questions and see what's going on. Sometimes you're asking them to do a different role. Sometimes you're asking them to maybe not do a role at all because that's the end of the journey.
Or in any of those conversations, you are talking to a person.
Somebody in finance may see them as a name on a spreadsheet, but they are a person with a family, with business bills, with obligations and responsibilities, and you have to basically talk to them and work with them in the environment of respect.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: Excellent advice. Excellent advice. That one.
When just before we break for the, the next segment, can you tell people how they are, tell our viewers how they can contact you best if they want to follow your career and what you're doing at Red Hat?
[00:24:42] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I'm, because of multiple different types of medias, I can't be doing all that. So I'm, I'm a LinkedIn girl, so I'm probably the best thing is a penny dot, a Penny Philpot on LinkedIn and 1L 1T. And look forward to speaking to anyone that wants to reach out.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: Great. And your name's on the screen so people have got the correct spelling of that. Okay, we'll be right back. And when we return, Penny opens up about hard lessons, leadership missteps, perhaps, and the defining moments that shaped her career and maturity as a leader.
[00:25:16] Speaker B: We'll be right back with more strategies, stories and steps to help you level.
[00:25:20] Speaker A: Up as a leader.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: This is Executive Success on NOW Media Television.
Every executive faces challenges, but not every executive learns to turn them into breakthroughs. I'm Lesley Everett, and on Executive Success, we bring you insights, strategy stories from leaders who have built remarkable careers.
We'll dig into executive branding, communication, leadership mindset, team dynamics, and how to navigate pivotal moments in your executive journey.
Catch Executive Success weekly on NOW Media Television, your front row seat to leadership mastery.
Lead with clarity, grow with purpose, achieve with integrity.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: And we're back.
[00:26:11] Speaker B: I'm Lesley Everett, and you're watching Executive Success on NOW Media Television. Let's continue building your executive edge.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Welcome back to Executive Success.
Leadership growth rarely comes from smooth sailing as often as thought. It's often shaped in moments of tension, conflict and discomfort comfort. In this segment, we explore how difficult experiences can become powerful teachers.
Every executive encounters missteps, challenging personalities, and moments where leadership is tested.
What separates great leaders is their ability to reflect, adapt and grow stronger through adversity.
Penny, you've said that you've learned more from bad managers than good ones. Perhaps. What's one behavior you probably promised yourself you would never repeat?
[00:27:02] Speaker C: I think being on a, being on a public hall with more staff than, you know who's on there and swearing, which was one of actually I've had a couple of bosses that did that repeatedly, which is was interesting in the days when you could. Well, it was.
You didn't get quite hauled hr straight away.
But I think the most important one is praise in public, criticize in private.
Because the minute as a manager, if one of your team trips up, we all have bad days, right? But overall, they're a good person. You want to see them in the team. And if you basically bad mouth or banish them or do something negative in front of their peers and they'll never see you again in the same light, you've lost your trust, you've lost your credibility with them. If you take them to one side and say, look, this isn't working really as well as it could be. Let's talk about it. Etc. They will have so much more respect.
So that's one of the key lessons, and I think another one is the way that when you're in a meeting room or when you're in a meeting and whether it's online or whatever, but allowing people to interject and have their ideas as well, rather than cutting them off. And because you're so keen to get to the end of the meeting or get to the conclusion that you've already got in your head and just go through the motions, it's really key to let people feel that they're part of that journey and that they are being listened to.
And I think I've. I've experienced a number of managers who, shall we say, didn't do that as well as they could be.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And the repercussions of that are huge. I've seen it as well. And. And it's not good. It takes a long while to recover from. From things like that that you've outlined there. So can you share a moment, perhaps when things didn't go so well for you, perhaps a leadership misstep and, and what it taught you and what you did about it?
[00:29:12] Speaker C: I was thinking hard about this one because I think there's quite a few missteps, but something that sort of taught me a lesson apart from whatever. But I think one of the things is you have to. You have to appreciate that when you're at work, everything you say is potentially being recorded.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:30] Speaker C: Whether it's in somebody's mind, it's whether it's on Gemini or whatever the type of thing is, or whether you're in a room, you just need to be careful to say, is everything I'm saying or how I'm approaching things. If this was filmed and somebody was sick, would I be okay with that? Right. And because people film things in their head and there was one particular scenario where I was not very happy, shall we say, we lost an opportunity, which you really shouldn't have done it.
I take full responsibility of my team. Mess up, it's on me. But of course, I need to explain to my team that that's not going to happen again. And I believe that the way I came across in sharing my concerns probably could have been. Could have been better done. And, and, and I, I was.
It turned into humor, actually. It ended up being, oh, don't say that, because you know what Penny's going to do. And it's. It ended up as being a bit of a humorous thing. But I wasn't proud of that. And I think another scenario is when, you know, I often have people come up to me and talk about senior leadership in, shall we say, not always a positive way.
And it's my job to make sure that I'm not going in on the bandwagon with them, but actually basically either becoming neutral, defending or take or sidestepping the conversation so that we can, you know, keep. Keep the, the credibility as needed the various leaders. And I remember a couple of companies ago that the, the leader really was making a lot of mess, and I spent a lot of time cleaning that up and. But then I suddenly realized, why am I doing that right? And so I did as much as I possibly could. And then they kind of got enough rope throat to hang themselves with. And I just thought, look, I've tried. I can't do it. I. So sometimes people get confused where your loyalties are. And I think at the end of the day, it has to be with the shareholder and your team.
[00:31:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I love all that. And thanks for being so honest about the missteps. I think it's a key thing for leaders to admit when things didn't go wrong and you didn't have it right from the start. You didn't have a plain sailing career where nothing went wrong and you didn't make mistakes. So thanks for sharing those. I think we learned from that, and people that we're bringing up underneath us to be future leaders as well learn huge amounts from that. Humility and then vulnerability, perhaps. Now, I know that you once inherited a team where you took the person in the role, felt that they should have had that role. That's always a difficult situation. I've heard about it before. But how did that, how did, how did you recognize that was happening and how did you deal with that?
[00:32:14] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, it was an interesting one because you're. You're invited to join this organization. It wasn't even going into a new team. It was joining a new organization.
And so I didn't really know too many people. And I was brought in as, you know, hey, this is Penny. She's going to, you know, sort of, you know, make water into wine. And, you know, I kind of. I think I got oversold, actually. But anyway, it was just nice. But, you know, the, the thing was, is that I arrived and immediately when I sat down with the team, you could see this one person, arms folded, leaning back, going, then, pony, show us what you can do. I'm going, oh, here we go.
And, you know, so you have to quickly recognize the people that are leaning in to say, hey, you know, what can I learn? How's this person? How can I help them be successful? Because then I'll be successful, blah, blah, do I see this person as a bouncy board or do I see. And then I found out afterwards when I dug in that actually they'd applied for the role and they didn't get it. In fact, that's happened to me three times now where I've joined a company, got a role that other people applied for and didn't get. So I'm kind of used to it now. I still walk in.
You know, when you walk in you go, okay, who went for this job before me? It's quite a key question, which is, who did you interview for this role? Just so you know.
But there's always going to be somebody and sometimes, you know, they'll get on board and sometimes they go, well, I didn't get this job and I wanted it and so I'm going to look somewhere else and that's absolutely fine too. And in one case I supported them finding something else because I knew they wouldn't be happy working in that role which they thought they should have been having. So there we go.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah, tough. I didn't realize you had that three times. That's. You're an expert at this now then. So if you think about what did, what strategies, or if there's one strategy you could pass on to another leader now that helped you to move forward without damaging the team in that situation, what would it be?
[00:34:13] Speaker C: Just to be respectful about the fact that you've turned up into the room and the room was already established and already sitting there. Right.
You've got to come in and add value.
If you go in and go, I'm here now, everyone's going to do it my way or the highway, you're just going to lose everyone. You've got it. Earn the respect you've got to come in, start to add value by listening and adding ideas. And really, you've got to show your, your stripes, right? Your stripes you can only show through discussion and best practice, sharing and insights, etc. You won't know anything, everything. And the question is to ask the right questions.
Turning up with stripes and expecting everyone to stand up and salute it. That's, that's never going to happen. So don't expect people to respect you until you've earned that respect from them.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. Thanks for that. So it's, I mean, I'm sure you've seen many things when you've been leading your, your team as well of leaders. And how do you think difficult experiences ultimately sharpen a leader's emotional intelligence and judgment? And have there been situations where you've had to coach one of your leaders within your team to handle a situation differently with perhaps more emotional intelligence?
[00:35:31] Speaker C: Yes, I think emotional intelligence is learned the hard way.
I don't necessarily think it's something that we're all born with or anyone's born with. You have to. It's a, it's a skill or a muscle that is developed and learned normally the hard way.
And a lot of that emotional intelligence is going back to the first question we talked about, which is how do you want people to make you feel and how. And working with people in the same way as you would want to be and etc.
So I've seen early on managers that just didn't understand. They thought they've been made a manager. So therefore they, they are fantastic and they are able to do all these amazing things and they will tell people what to do. And they have a viewer that, you know, they're the manager. They don't. They just tell people what to do and the guys in their team will do the legwork. I've actually said, as a manager, you work harder and longer hours than you do as a team member. I mean, that's always been my, my way that I feel that this whole delegation, you delegate part of the job, but the bigger job you can't. So you have to do it. So it's basically, you can't do that. And so, and having emotional intelligence is important because you're asking people to do things. Sometimes they want to do it, sometimes they don't.
But people are. By the way, the other thing to be noted on emotional intelligence is when people come onto a call or come into the office, they're coming in from somewhere, they're coming in for a home. You know, they may have had their son, as I had this morning. My EA had her son pass a driving test, so she was in great mood. I could get to do anything. It was wonderful.
Other times it's, it's, you know, and so there's not so much. Again, if somebody's going through an illness or something's happening in family or you have to remember that these are individuals with different things. Emotional intelligence is a very, very powerful tool if you can get it right and don't abuse it or whatever. But the people without emotional intelligence are awful people to work with. And quite often, you know, I've seen I've seen some women with so little emotional intelligence and they are at the top of the food chain when it comes to company.
I prefer not at the top of the chain and not and not be a class A.
Yeah. Piece of work than to lose my emotional intelligence and my integrity and the joy of working with people.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: I think emotional intelligence is something that leaders are going to have to focus on an awful lot more than they ever have done up until now. Even so. So up next, we're going to bring it all together. We're going to be looking at culture, communication and the executive branding aspects that sustain long term success.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: We'll be right back with more strategies, stories and steps to help you level.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: Up as a leader.
[00:38:27] Speaker B: This is Executive Success on NOW Media Television.
Every executive faces challenges, but not every executive learns to turn them into breakthroughs.
I'm Lesley Everett and on Executive Success we bring you insights, strategy stories from leaders who have built remarkable careers.
We'll dig into executive branding, communication, leadership mindset, team dynamics and how to navigate pivotal moments in your executive journey.
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[00:39:16] Speaker A: And we're back.
[00:39:16] Speaker B: I'm Lesley Everett and you're watching Executive Success on NOW Media Television. Let's continue building your executive edge.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: Welcome back to Executive Success.
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Welcome back to Executive Success. In this final segment with Penny, we step back and look at the bigger picture. How culture, communication and executive presence define not just success, but sustainability in leadership.
Penny, you've worked in environments ranging from collaborative to highly political.
What have those contrasts taught you perhaps about where leaders truly thrive?
[00:40:37] Speaker C: I think very much about taking that step back and reading the room. Who is the people that you should best work on a collaborative basis and where is the politics?
You know, because if you understand the political landscape, you can, you can through it to get what you need done. It's always going to be there. You put two people in a room, you can get politics.
And so it's really reading that to be able to understand, I think when I haven't understood politics, or if I've not been as collaborative I should be, or if I haven't engaged stakeholders as much or early on as it could be, it really does bite you in the backside.
And that's something that is well worth avoiding.
[00:41:26] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, it's being able to spot it early on. So that leads me to what advice would you give to leaders to avoid being dazzled by prestigious brands and moving into perhaps a. A culture that doesn't fit.
[00:41:44] Speaker C: You know, Essie, this is an interesting one because every company, no matter how big or small, has a culture. Right?
And. And I work for aggressive companies, passive aggressive companies, everywhere in the spectrum.
The current company I work for is. Has an amazing culture and I. I really feel that even more at home here than I've ever felt anywhere else. I'm absolutely loving it.
But the thing is that if it doesn't feel right, even if it's a big brand or whatever, it doesn't feel right for you.
You have to think about what's best.
Is it worth the stress? Is it worth the waking hours because it doesn't have the fit that works for you?
You know, everyone's got their own brand of values and you want to find a company that's got as close to those values as possible, whether it's a prestigious brand or not.
It's not. It's not just about what they're going to pay you. It's going to. It's going to be, how do they make you feel? How do they support you and how valued you feel and encouraged and supported in the journey that they're asked as you go on? To me, that's worth everything.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: How do you. Do you have a practical tip on how you've done this or found this out beforehand? Where do you go? How do you get the answers to those questions?
[00:43:11] Speaker C: Well, I think a lot of it is asking people who've either worked there or still worked in a company or even in another team. So if you're going to move to another team within the same company, you know, who works there today? Who do you know? How's it like? What's the culture like? What's the. What's the. The boss to team, you know, sort of feel about it? What's the vibe? Do feet people feel comfortable? Do they feel that they can actually say what they think? Or are people being pushed down? You know, is humor welcomed? Because if it's not, I can't go there.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: No, for sure.
[00:43:44] Speaker C: And whether you Know you're felt that you were a person rather than a, you know, something that's there to help me move the needle.
So first of all it's very key to ask the questions beforehand. And when you are there, the key thing is get work out who your stakeholders are. Ask people who's influential in our business, who do we need to work with to get things done. How old does that work? Who works for who really understand the influence map just like you would be doing if you were going to see a customer, you know who. What's the influence map? Understanding that and then being able to work around it. And of course the team itself that you're working with. Again as we've said before, you know, understanding who they are, what their aspirations are. You know, maybe they don't didn't want you to be here or whether they, they felt they should be getting the job or they've just got something else that they prefer to be doing but they can't seem to get out of what they are, all of those things. It's listening in the first few days to as much as you possibly can to build that picture.
Because once you've built that picture and that map you can then ride through it.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: Yes. Perhaps not having too many preconceived ideas and being open minded and asking the open questions I guess of people as well. So you get it all. They get the, the 360 degree view.
[00:45:04] Speaker C: You've always been. Whenever I've gone into a company, my preconceived ideas has always been their systems and operations are going to be great.
And then you just explain expect it when you lift on the hood, it's not going to always be there.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: Absolutely, yeah. So you're there going into a brand new role, excited about it, you've chosen it because you believe it's absolutely right. Ticks all the boxes and it's very hard to not slip into those preconceived ideas of what it's going to be like. It's that open mindedness. I think that's great advice.
You've often said, I've heard you say it's many times but that you I think was advice that you'd perhaps been given is that your ability to get on in your career is directly linked to your ability to present well. And I often use that with my clients as well. Can you expand on that and how that's played out in your career?
[00:45:58] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, it's that whole observing thing. I'm a real observer. Put me in a cafe on the street and I'm watching everyone.
One the person that shared this with me was a great senior person who was very technical and you wouldn't think that they'd be particularly be in the communication but this is how they got on and how you know, what is it you want people to know? How do you want them to walk away, what's the key things and how to get there as simply as possible. So you're taking people on a journey and you want them to get there as easily and as simply as you possibly can.
And that is when you're standing in front of somebody you know, how do you break this down to say this is where we are and this is where we want to be and this will be the benefits to us if we get there and these are the steps we have to get do to get there. Does everyone agree?
These are the critical success factors? Do I have you buy it? So it's really breaking it down into the simplest components. If your cat can understand it, you're probably halfway there.
I practice on my cats all the time.
The key is that if it's simplistic, if it's factual, if it's impactful, if you're presenting and when you know these slides that everyone has, don't forget slides are supposed to be a guide to help you explain, not the thing that you're trying to explain.
The people that are younger in Korea, I don't know whether they think they get paid for the amount of filling in slide where they get but yeah, it's not going to work. It has to be impactful or not. I mean if you can actually present without a slide and get your message across, that is the best form.
So slides are just to help you and some people would say any more than three bullets is too much and etc, there's lots of different thoughts about this but if you can take a concept and get a room of people to get take, go along with you in that journey and agree or at least understand what you're trying to say and they're engaged, then they will see you as somebody who is going to make changes that will make impact the business positively and potentially you're a safe pair of hands and why don't we ask you to do even more? So it really is.
You may not even know what you're talking about but if you can potentially bring it over and make it sounding powerful and you're standing there feeling confident and showing confidence and executive presence, you know it's going to open up some doors.
[00:48:41] Speaker A: Absolutely so it's simplifying it really. I often say to clients, just have the must have information. Don't have any of the should have bits or the nice to have just the must have pieces because they're not going to remember everything you've said. And if you're putting in stuff that's not really important, you don't know which bits they're taking away. So just have the must have pieces of information. I think that's, that's really critical as well. And I'm a great believer, obviously, I teach it and coach it. Presentations. Getting great at presenting is so pivotal to your career. Whether that's presenting to a couple of people or even one person or a big conference presentation. It's a skill that I think leaders really need to focus on more than perhaps they do sometimes.
So to wrap up, if you had to define three or five key leadership principles that have guided your career, which ones would you pick?
[00:49:34] Speaker C: Definitely simplified and impactful communication, whether that's written or verbal or presenting.
The second one would be to be have empathy.
The third one is to show confidence and resilience.
You know, when changes are happening, you need to be the one that has the feet on the firmly there and will basically be the safe person in the room for everyone to work with about something.
And I suppose, you know, in that it's, it's, it's the stakeholder management that I mentioned before and I think my last one has to be, if you don't have humor, you will struggle every day. There's going to be a day when a little bit of humor and making people feel good is going to take you absolutely a long way. They'll want to work with you, they'll want you to support you.
It's how you make people feel. And if they're basically feeling valued, it's, it's all about people's feelings.
[00:50:42] Speaker A: Great. And you know, you've touched on that. I think humor is such a key part of your brand, your executive brand, your brand as a person, which, you know, they should be intertwined anyway. And I think that's an important piece to remember that what is it that drives you? Who are you? What do you stand for? And sticking to that and building on that as a, as a brand to be well known for what you do and what you stand for. And humor is, is central to your brand, even as an executive leader. And I love that. So, Penny, this has been incredibly valuable. Thank you so much for joining us today. And just remind our viewers where they can best connect with you.
[00:51:17] Speaker C: Yes. Best Connect with me is in LinkedIn. And Penny Philpot. Looking forward to connecting with you all and do reach out. Happy to help.
[00:51:26] Speaker A: Thank you, Penny, for sharing not just your success story, but the lessons, the challenges, the values behind it.
Today's conversation reminds us that leadership isn't about perfection. It's about growth. It's about trust, communication, and staying grounded in who you are.
To our viewers, take a moment to reflect.
How are your early experiences shaping your leadership today?
Where might influence empathy or clarity be the next level of your executive success? What stories do you have?
I'm Lesley Everett, and this is Executive Success, where leaders grow, evolve, and lead with purpose. We'll see you next time.
